12th Aug, 2008

The Bear Growls

Unquestionably on the move again, the brutish Russian Bear has struck hard and fast, alarming the world with its vicious and relentless attack on a smaller and weaker Democratic state to the south. Despite Russian propaganda claiming it is responding to “genocide”, many pundits believe that Mikheil Saakashvilli, president of Georgia, fell into a trap sprung by President-turned-Prime Minister Putin when Georgia responded militarily to the increased pressure of Moscow-supported South Ossetian rebels. Indeed, it seems likely that a far greater drama is being played out by the cunning Putin than the supposed “rescue” of this tiny, break-away province. Unwittingly (as usual), George Bush bears his own measure of responsibility for encouraging Saakashevili in being more aggressive than was prudent. Many feel that the Russians were only waiting for an opportunity to take a swing at this “uppity”, democratically-elected president to the south.

Whether the Bear is merely demonstrating a revanchist hunger to increase its sphere of influence or feels threatened by a growing geopolitical and ideological encirclement by western-leaning nations, the situation is dire, with all the cards in Putin’s hands. Not only will the US, still frightened by terrorism above all else, need Russian cooperation to deal with the issue of a nuclear Iran and with the loose nukes that still dot the Russian countryside, but, even more problematic, Russia controls a great deal of the oil and gas that keeps Europe, South Asia, and Israel humming along. Putin has already shown an inclination to wield this as a very effective weapon. As a result, none of the Western nations that have encouraged and befriended Georgia and the Ukraine in their recent reach toward democracy and NATO membership will give any meaningful military support in the face of Russian aggression and risk throwing world energy markets into a devastating turmoil. Probably grinning like the cat that stole the canary, Putin has made his move with little fear of reprisal.

As we have seen, the past few years have yielded a slew of daring, unilateral, and largely unchallenged moves by Russia on the world stage, including its protest in Kosovo, its outcry over a few defensive interceptors in Poland, as well as its willingness to manipulate oil and gas supplies, unleash cyber attacks, sponsor assassinations of enemies abroad, and, finally, its ominous invasion into the heart of Georgia. This growing autocratic and aggressive tone can clearly be seen in the astrological chart for Russia. As suggested by astrologer Lynn Hayes, the Russian Federation’s declaration of independence from the Soviet Union of June12, 1990, at 1:45 PM in Moscow, seems to make the most sense as the birth moment of the modern Russia. In this chart, the two tightest aspects are the Mars/Uranus square (8 Aries/8Capricorn), which denotes a very daring, aggressive, brutal and willful tendency, and the Venus/Pluto opposition (15 Taurus/15Scorpio), which indicates a fanatical streak with an obsessive need for control, as well as a deeply rooted sense of distrust or even paranoia. Both of these natal aspects are in play at present and are part of a larger development in Russia witnessed by the world over the past several years.

The transformation of Russia from nascent democracy to renewed autocracy as Putin consolidated his power and crushed any alternative centers of strength began in earnest during Pluto’s transit opposite the Russian Sun (21Gemini10) and conjunct the Russian IC (24Sagittarius46) from 2004 through 2006. Then, by late 2006, the progressed Sun moved into an opposition with progressed and then natal Uranus, indicating an ever-increasing daring and willingness to act unilaterally by the countryy’s ruler (the Sun). By late 2007, not only was the progressed Sun opposite natal Uranus (8Capricorn17), but it had begun to move into a square with natal Mars (8Aries49) indicating the fierce aggressiveness that we are seeing today in Georgia. This Sun/Mars square will peak around December 1 and then slowly dissipate in its power indicating a lessening of the recently dramatic increase in militancy as we move into the spring of 2009.

While the general mood in Russia from April to December 2008 is somewhat intensified, emotionally charged, nationalistic, and more prone to distrust due to the Pluto station (00 Capricorn) activating the Venus/Pluto opposition (15 Taurus/Scorpio), the addition of the transit of Uranus square the Russian Sun (21Gemini10) during an already volatile year prone to militancy and unilateral action (progressed Sun square Mars and opposite Uranus) seems to have been the real trigger for the current crisis. Transiting Uranus has been square the Russian Sun since April 2008, but it is within one degree and waxing during all of August, exerting its most potent impact. (This aspect will return briefly in late January and early February 2009.) Thus, the most willful, unexpected, and tension-producing actions by Putin (or Medvedev, depending on who really has the power) are likely in August, possibly spilling into the first few days of September when Mars transits opposite Russian natal Mars, thereby activating the progressed Sun square Mars (8/31 to 9/2). It is noteworthy that from late November 2008 through January 2009, Saturn will station square the Russian Sun, suggesting significant difficulties for the leadership and the nation at that time. This fits into my prediction of some world-wide troubles during that period by which, it seems, Russia will also be affected.

One final chart of note that offers insight into the current hostilities is that of Mikheil Saakashvili (12/21/67, Tbilisi, Georgia). His natal Sun/Uranus square at 29 Sagittarius/29Virgo, is being crossed by Pluto at present, signifying the intense power struggle in which he feels embroiled, a struggle over the very survival of his government and perhaps his nation. This aspect will continue through roughly October 2008, suggesting this saga is not yet over. There have been rumblings that Russia’s real aim in this confrontation was regime change in Georgia. Saakashvilli certainly feels threatened with Pluto pressing upon his Sun, likely amplified from August 14 to August 18 by Mars, and the political ramifications for his recent ill-conceived attack on South Ossetia are yet to be determined.

Responses

Thanks for the insight on Russia, this all sounds so danergeous that we need to be aware. Quick questions. Would a Venus/Pluto opposition be obsessed with wanting love or a “respect” from everyone? I have read too that Russia wants a regime change and not pro-western. How does Isreal play in this mix, since they have invested money in Georgia?? It is all the U.S. needs is another country against Isreal. Since Wes Clark was successful with Kosovo, he might look good at this time? And creditials to throw McCain out of the water.
There is a great article in the New York Times today by Carl Hulse about Bayh’s pros and cons.
Thanks again on the prospectives of Russia and shows more how we need a great Sec. of State.
Biden or Richardson??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/08/12/BL2008081201518_pf.html

Who Poked the Bear?

snip

Helene Cooper writes in the New York Times: “Many experts in foreign policy say that one reason Russia responded so forcefully to Georgia’s attempt to take back South Ossetia is that the United States and Europe had been asserting themselves in Russia’s backyard, alienating Moscow by supporting Kosovo’s bid for independence.

“These expert say that the Bush administration’s efforts to promote democracy, including backing [Georgian President Mikheil] Saakashvili as a beacon of democracy on Russia’s borders, may have emboldened the Georgian president to take provocative actions that brought a fierce Russian response.

“Beyond that, Russia has also been angry about American plans to put a missile defense system in Poland, and by American moves to encourage Georgia and Ukraine to join NATO.

“‘The combination is that the overall means with which we’ve dealt with the Russians over the last two years have painted them into a corner so that it’s difficult for them not to see us as hostile,’ said Michael Greig, conflict management specialist at the University of North Texas.”

More at the link….

LJ - Venus rules the 2nd house, so I would think the Pluto transit would set off anxiety about the economy and people’s comfort in general. It can also indicate intense nationalism or other intense emotions about the country. It could be said to describe the deep, emotional, brooding Russian soul.

I was most struck by the exact natal Mars/Uranus square with the progressed Sun right on it in the past few years and through 2008. We can really see how Putin has continually upped the ante over the past few years culminating with the past week’s harsh military response - so Mars/Uranus. Interestingly, this whole mess began on the Mars Uranus opposition in early August.

Pat - What that article describes is exactly what I think comes of the Pluto transit to a Venus that is already primed to react to Pluto (Venus Pluto natal opposition). The distrust, the feel of being surrounded and unsafe, the paranoia, the intensity of emotion, the feeling of a subtle power struggle, etc. Then add to that the activation of Mars/Uranus and you have a willingness to be very aggressive and ignore world opinion to do what you feel is in your interest. Happily, these both will pass by 2009 and the last Uranus square to the Sun will be done by mid-February 2009. I think Putin will settle down some by then. But then Bush (and hopefully McCain) won’t be poking the Bear anymore.

Hello Nancy,

I just happened to reread an article by Adrian Ross Duncan entitled ‘Russia: A Painful Transition’, in the Dec/Jan 2005 issue of The Mountain Astrologer, as I ate lunch today. Besides the 12/25/91 chart for the raising of the Russian flag, he also refers to the Russian Revolution chart for 11/8/17, 2:12 am, St. Petersburg. This latter chart has the Ascendant at 14 Virgo 11.

I enjoyed this article, which seemed well-written, and well thought out.

Cheers,
David

Dear Nancy, your analysis of the Georgian invasion is the most brilliant and fair minded that I have read. You point out that Putin set a trap for the Georgian president, but the latter’s aggressive response amounts to real provocation. You confront the ambiguity here, most American accounts do not. Yes, Russia overreacted, but it overreacted to something. After invading Iraq, with absolutely no provocation, Bush is not in the best position to castigate Russia.

Thank you for the explanation of Venus/Pluto
opposition in the chart. The heavy nationalism
feelings gives a good answer to this. Hopefully, the U.S. will stop the poking.

t
Thanks so much for this piece. I can’t bring up the details in my memory but I also remember Bush and Company wanting to build some type of shield in Poland which Putin took as a real insult. Bush has been as mean and provocative as anything we see in Putin.
Thanks also for the info re: venus/pluto opposition. I have run into this aspect more than once and was never comfortable with my own understanding of that aspect.

Professor and LJ - I think that Venus/Pluto issue is really important. What we tend to see with this recent attack is more the Mars - the aggression - and react to that. But the Venus/Pluto tells a different story - of distrust and really fear as well as a defiant and nagry response (Uranus/Mars). IVenus/Pluto is in the natal chart but very activated by the Pluto hovering around 00 Capricorn through 2008. Bush has really been poking a stick at them as would McCain. And they are scary and aggressive. But I think they can be placated. I think they will calm down a lot when Pluto moves away (late December), progressed Sun begins to separate from the square to Mars (late December), and Uranus makes its final square to the Sun (mid-February). This also suggests that Putin will be dealing with Obama and not McCain, and he is therefore less threatened by all the neocon belligerence.

Clymela - I have noticed a lot with Venus/Pluto hard aspects that the person feels people are watching him or her and judging. There is a lot of self consciousness bordering on paranoia.

You will often see Pluto transits when a person is running for office and hence they are aware everyone is watching and judging. It is real. But I have seen it is people in the natal chart when it isn’t really happening but very intensely experienced nonetheless. Interesting for it to be in the Russian chart in a country where they are not really free to do and say as they please and hence are always looking over their shoulders and worrying about people seeing or hearing them.

The facts are indisputable. Georgia was the aggressor against Ossetia and invaded because they thought that George W would back them up. It was nothing more than a land grab. Oops.

Russia responded the same way any other country in the same circumstances would have to protect Ossetia and their countrymen. This was just sheer stupidity and hubris on the part of the Georgian President. Dumb.

My totally favorite “pundit” these days is Rachel Maddow. She gives such a clear understanding of what is going on in Georgia on her weeknight show on Air America. Listen tomorrow from 6 to 7 EDT. She is also on 7 to 8 but the first hour (usually she plays Race to the White House but not this week) is an incredible lesson on what is going on. The last two nights have been amazing and crystal clear.

There is a video here from Countdown which is also interesting, but it is her take on Georgia that I found really compelling.

http://airamerica.com/maddow

The US has the best spy satellites in the world. Why weren’t we informed of the tank/troop/logistical buildup on the Georgian Border? And what did Bush mean when he said that Russian troop movements went beyond “reassurances?”
What reassurances?
Why are there no sanctions proposed versus Russia?

Could it be that a deal has been made: Georgia for Iran?

Iran and Russia sign major oil deal | Jerusalem Post
Iran and Russia sign major oil deal. Jul. 14, 2008 … Iran, according to the agreement, has offered Gazprom an extended package for …
jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?…&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer - Cached

Nancy, the Venus/Pluto explanation is awesome.
I have run into that before and could not totally understand it. Great for the future. From Pat’s recommendation, from Wash Post. I found
http://www.gawker.com–and it certainly pictures George W. drunk. Fun to see. ** It seems that G.W. has pushed Putin around in the last few years, and he took him to Dad’s house for the fishing week-end. I always get nervous, when they go see old George. Glad to know Mars will pass even tho late Dec. is a long wait. And Putin can meet Obama in Jan.

Although a tentative truce has been declared between Russian and Georgian forces this morning, sporadic fighting persists. In the meantime, a Russian naval build-up in the Black Sea region of Ajaria casts an ominous over-shadowing of the conflict. In the event the agreement of cessation of hostilities breaks down, would the Russians seize the all important Butami oil terminal off the southern Georgian coast and would that evoke a western response of severe sanctions against Russia? ………

Russia Masses Naval Force Opposite Georgia’s Third Sensitive Region, Ajaria
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 12, 2008

Georgian president addresses mass rally in Tbilisi
While the world’s attention was fixed on the Russian-Georgian contest over two breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, DEBKAfile’s exclusive military sources reveal that Russia has massed a fleet of warships and marine forces opposite the Gerogia’s semi-autonomous Black Sea region of Ajaria.

Moscow is preparing to punish what it regards as Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s further provocations by occupying this coastal strip on Georgia’s southwestern border with Turkey.

The appearance of Ukraine’s president Viktor Yushchenko alongside Saakashvili, leaders of the pro-Western Orange and Rose Revolutions, at a huge national rally outside the Georgian parliament in Tbilisi Tuesday night, Aug. 12, may well be seen by the Kremlin as over the top. It came hours after Russian President Dimitry Medvedev’s gesture to the European mediation bid of ordering the Russian military operation in Georgia halted there and then.

Half of Ajaria’s ethnically Georgian population professes Islam, in contrast to the country’s Christian majority. The other half is Russian.

Ajarian has come to mean a Georgian Muslim.

The Russian Black Sea buildup is deployed opposite the Ajurian capital of Batumi, an important port for the shipment of oil from Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan. Its oil refinery handles Caspian oil from Azerbaijan.

When Saakashvili was elected president five years ago, the region’s leaders refused to recognize his authority and maintained close ties with Moscow up until May 2004 when, after Ajurians demonstrated against Tbilisi, he ordered them to obey the Georgian constitution and disarm.

Russia maintained a military base at Batumi which it agreed to close by November 2007.

DEBKAfile’s sources report that by recovering the base, Moscow will not only punish the Georgian president, but also profit from the turmoil of the past week in three ways:

1. A third semi-autonomous province will be hacked off Georgian territory after the loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

2. Russia will gain a strategic Black Sea foothold at Turkey’s back door.

3. It will also control a gateway to Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and Armenia.

OT, but I agree with this article and would like to see it posted everywhere.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080809_whats_sex_got_to_do_with_it/

What’s Sex Got to Do With It?

If I had to choose between George W. Bush, naked and neighing on all fours while being ridden around the Oval Office by a spurred cowgirl Condoleezza Rice, or enduring his shredding of domestic and international law to wage an illegal war and bilking of the country on behalf of his corporate backers, I could learn to stomach a wide array of sexual escapades.

Let our elected leaders and candidates have quick homosexual encounters in airport bathrooms, bring as many hookers as they want to their hotel rooms, and screw around with their campaign staff as long as they exhaust their libidos on lusts other than war, torture and economic mismanagement. Adolf Hitler, after all, was an abstemious and monogamous vegetarian who loved his German shepherd.

But, unfortunately for us, and hapless politicians like John Edwards, our press finds it more lucrative to report salacious sex scandals than the death and maiming of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, although the mainstream press showed, for once, a remarkable restraint until Edwards was forced to confess. We hear more about pricey hookers and the bathroom code of cruising homosexuals than the revoking of habeas corpus, the use of torture as an interrogation technique, and the plundering of our country by rapacious corporations. Television dominates our news content, and its ethical standards hover around those of the National Enquirer.

More….

TBR News August 11, 2008

The Voice of the White House

Washington , D.C. , August 11, 2008 : “This weekend, both the United States and Georgia shot themselves in their respective feet when the unstable Georgian President, a kept whore of the CIA and the Bush administration, decided to make war on his neighbor. Every a humanitarian, he opened fire on purely civilian areas and inflicted terrible casualties. The Russians, who we know now had been tipped off about this piratical venture, responded at once with great force, driving out the invaders and then charging ahead into Georgia itself. Terrified American military and CIA personnel fled the country and terrified wails from the Georgians for Bush to come and help his friends went unheard.

The state of Georgia has been kissing up to the United States after our CIA paid for their departure from the Russian Republic . Like Israel , Georgia felt it had a powerful protector and could defy their old enemies with impunity. The US armed the Georgian army, their capitol was filled with CIA agents and so they decided, in essence, to attack Putin. Putin knew in advance about this, just as Bush knew in advance about the 9/11 attacks, and built up the Russian response forces on his side of the border.

And waited.

And, secure in their false knowledge that there were American troops in Georgia which would, they felt, prevent a Russian response, they invaded their neighbor. The Russians responded and pushed out of the reconquered territory and into Georgia itself, with the bedraggled Georgian army in full and pathetic retreat.

The Georgian leadership fled into the mountains after declaring war on Russia and the Russians then bombed the oil lines and the oil processing plants at the Black Sea port of Poti .

It is interesting to note, and our press has not, that these facilities are owned by the UAE who are howling to Bush to protect their immense investment.

What can Bush do for them? The same thing he can do for Israel : Nothing.

The Georgians struck first, giving Putin the moral right to defend and strike back (The Georgians were stupid enough to blow up a barracks with Russian soldiers inside) so it will be hard for Congoleeza to make a good moral case against Vladimir . Besides, morals and ethics are excellent norms but in global politics, not effective techniques. The pathetic pipings of the useless UN will have about as much effect on Putin as will Bush’s mouthings. I see all of this as very, very interesting, given the personalities involved.

“tbrnews.org”

Rev. Wright’s October Surprise
James Joyner | Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Barack Obama’s one-time pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, has a new book coming out in October, along with a national tour to promote it. The Spectator’s James Forsyth thinks this is “a huge problem for Obama.”

It means that the whole controversy over Wright’s racialist sermons and his friendship with Obama is going to be returning to the news agenda just as undecided voters begin to make up their minds.

“outsidethebeltway.com”

The Economic Cost of the Military Industrial Complex

http://seekingalpha.com/article/90742-the-economic-cost-of-the-military-industrial-complex

Not just tanks and bombs, it’s also cyberwarfare.

http://rbnexploit.blogspot.com/2008/08/rbn-georgia-cyberwarfare-status-and.html

Nancy, I’ve read that nearly 15 527 groups are ready to launch attacks against McCain quite soon. Does anything in his chart hint at the onslaught? I note that the Neptune/Venus conjunction breaks up on August 18.

Hey All - I am now officially international having been translated into Portuguese!!

http://www.cnastrologia.org.br/internacional.php

Julie W, thanks for posting the TBR article … a great counterpoint for the typical US propaganda machine.

Nancy, that so cool! Portuguese, no less!

Professor - McCain is under progressed Moon conjunct progressed Mars right now through mid-September. We have seen his very militant response to the South Ossetian War. It is also likely he will get angry during this transit and put on a display. The 527’s could be part of that. One can hope anyway!!

Uranus opposing his Saturn for all of September could give him some jolts (including some mini-health issues to remind voters of his age). Neptune moves away from quincunx his Venus after 8/18 which could burst the bubble of his fantasies. By late September, Saturn will begin its square of his Jupiter which I think will push him down in the polls. The first week of October brings Saturn to his Neptune which I am counting on to really deflate him. This is a few days after the first debate.

We should nationalize the oil companies, they’re criminals pulling an Enron on the public of epic proportions.
Perhaps 60% of oil prices today pure speculation
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8878

“as much as 60% of the today oil price is pure speculation. No one knows officially except the tiny handful of energy trading banks in New York and London and they certainly aren’t talking.
By purchasing large numbers of futures contracts, and thereby pushing up futures prices to even higher levels than current prices, speculators have provided a financial incentive for oil companies to buy even more oil and place it in storage. A refiner will purchase extra oil today, even if it costs $115 per barrel, if the futures price is even higher.

As a result, over the past two years crude oil inventories have been steadily growing, resulting in US crude oil inventories that are now higher than at any time in the previous eight years. The large influx of speculative investment into oil futures has led to a situation where we have both high supplies of crude oil and high crude oil prices.”

Well now the Georgian President is telling McCain to put up or shut up. He said “Time is past for words, we need deeds”.

So What is warmonger McCain going to do- And how presumptious of him to sabre rattle when he isn’t President.

As for the Rev. Wright book, Roland Martin-CNN spoke to Rev. Wright who is in Ghana, there is no book deal and no book tour for Oct.

We can’t believe every article written on a subject without researching the topic from various sources. That is the sorry state of our media. Speculation has replaced facts.

One of my favorite astrologers has a new astrology post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/huffpollstrology-candidat_n_118587.html

ASTROLOGER PHILIP SEDGWICK LOOKS AT THE CANDIDATES - **NEW POST**:
The campaigns say one thing about the candidates. But does astrology say something else? Read my esteemed colleague Philip Sedgwick’s take on McCain and Obama’s birthchart. Find out who’s really winning despite what the polls suggest - Astrologer Phyllis Mitz
Last week both McCain and Obama took personal hits to their horoscopes from the planet of action, drive and momentum, Mars, who occupied the ever so discerning (and critical) Virgo. Both lost a little expected ground. Obama was criticized for failing to have a comprehensive energy plan. McCain was judged for not having a clue. As Mars made contact with a new planetary influence, both candidates were obscured by John Edwards, the Olympics and the Russian-Georgian war. Obama took the Mars transit for a week in Hawaii. While not good for the polls, astrologers would sanction such a move.

Remember back in 2004 when early exit polls indicated Kerry, Kerry, Kerry? Barring the likely introduction of a credible conspiracy theory about another stolen election, the polls failed. Presently, we have a heap of planets in the hair splitting detail-obsessed Virgo. The polls gain a ludicrous tone as they specify overly detailed factors. I’m not trying to take away the livelihood of pollsters, but the category “women age 25 to 35 for Obama who wear flip flops in Starbucks” was a bit over the top. Uh, maybe I dreamt that; I’m too loaded with poll facts to be sure. What I do know is “flip flops” should not be used in any poll.

Consider how astrologers see it. We know the planets now are not in the places they shall be on November 4th. The energy, mood and priorities will be different then than now. Presently, we see load of planets in Virgo. That’s now. On November 4th, it’s different. Only the hard core “I want a stable life” planet Saturn remains in Virgo. The rest have moved on but not before tangling speculation in a mire of details, campaign facts, distortions and spin.

On Election Day, Mars occupies his own sign, Scorpio. Mars represents pulling the trigger and primal issues regarding the protection of one’s territory. As a voter pulls the trigger, the underscoring influence will be guided by gut level reactions to which candidate truly protects their interests.

In the 2000 and 2004 elections Mars traveled through Libra on Election Day. The Republicans successfully wove the hostile energy, aggressive theme of Mars with the socially conscious sign of Libra that just aches to fit in. “I am a uniter not a divider” and “If you’re not one of us, you’re one of them.” This month Mars enters Libra for roughly six weeks. You can expect an extended replay of this theme by McCain and the GOP. You can expect to polls to slant more in McCain’s favor as a result, narrowing the gap. Mars changes signs in the first week of October. To preserve their chances, the incumbent party must go after more severe psychic manipulations to sway the polls and win the vote.

This is one of the reasons astrologers are reluctant to place their bets on the winning candidate. Hell, I predicted Gore and Kerry winners in 2000 and 2004. In those contests and to my surprise the previously unknown planets Chad and Diebold created difficult aspects to Mercury, the planet of tally and count. Many astrologers anticipate an unforeseen and conjured event with the ability to dramatically change the momentum of the election. Personally, I see two of these. One is likely around September 12th when an economic patch, cleverly applied by the President or an emergency act of economic reform introduced by a Republican can better McCain’s sliding chances. More seriously, patterns late in October and another on November 3rd imply the promise of international hostilities that could lean voters to the more hawkish candidate. Astrological influences note that such threats contain the same level of credibility as did the presence of WMD’s in Iraq. Still, the mask at Halloween can be scary. And if scary enough to distort a person’s sense of personal security, all bets are off.
While I have my pick, I am reluctant to announce it until the polls close in Hawaii (kidding). I prefer to see what tricks lie ahead and then I’ll apply some astrology to evaporate the mirage.

To make my pick I used the same principle I use in World Series forecasting: I set a chart for the end of the event, poll closing in Hawaii, and from that, the indicators clearly report who comes out on top: looks like Obama. Don’t bet with me, though. I picked Gore and Kerry as winners.

I was happily examining this new chart for Russia, when I happened to think about Israel’s chart, and recalled that it doesn’t seem to jive with Israel’s bombing of Iraq’s nuclear reactor in June 1981. So I came here to ask, does anyone know of any rectification that has been done on Israel’s chart?

Pat,

I agree in principle about not judging politicians for what they do behind closed doors. I think, however, the larger problem is one of moral character. If one has a lack of integrity in one area of his/her life, it bleeds into other areas as well.

When a person takes public office, especially the presidency, they are open to blackmail by unscrupulous characters in order to keep their secrets hidden. They might do favors for certain individuals in return for secrecy, and who knows where that might lead.

Bush displayed a lack of moral character long before becoming president, but the public turned their heads and thought it was nice to have one they could have a beer with.

I sympathize with the frustrating situation the Edwards’ family were under at the time which can make one vulnerable. It’s unfortunate that Edwards didn’t think before acting of the possible ramifications if he really wanted to be president, knowing that the truth usually comes out eventually. He let a lot of people down, because they believed in him and his potential, which may not be fully realized. I think the public can forgive a sexual slip, but the lies which are still being exposed and his lack of judgment might not be as easily surmountable.

Philip Sedgwick is right to be cautious. Astrology is not cut and dry.

All politicians have a facade. Edwards is no different. He is not the only one.

Every human being has a public facade. And if one has a lack of morality in one area of life doesn’t neccessary means it bleeds into another. If so, how can one explain the great leadership of FDR, Einsehower, JFK and Reagan?

How can Thomas Jefferson write the most brillant document known to man but sleep with his slave and not emancipate them until his death?

Do all the people who fudge on their income taxes returns become bank robbers.

The issue isn’t Edwards affair. It’s about him being a congential LIAR.

Marta, you are welcome.

Sonya, you are so right! I am glad there is no book deal to sideswipe Obama and yes, you cannot believe every thing you read and hear, unfortunately….

Nancy, this is a great site and I am glad other nationalities can get to enjoy it and join in.

We are all weak, we have all sinned, we have all lied, etc., etc., that does not mean that we do not have something to offer our fellow human beings. I know I have sinned but I am also, I think, a wonderful, loving, human being with a Great Soul!

Reagan? You’re kidding. Have you forgotten the Savings & Loan crisis (another republican tax-payer financed boondoggle where a select few became rich and were able to feed on the carcasses of raided Savings & Loans - all of which was paid for ….. you guessed it - US)? Here is Miami Southeast Bank, one of the oldest Florida banks which was a great local benefactor of the arts and a large employer was shut down on suspicious charges, to say the least; and the assets looted, compliments of the Usual Suspects. Iran/Contra? The aids debacle? The huge deficit and his minions left us? Talk about a whitewash. He was the worst! Further he had alzheimer’s for much of his second term. So no, Reagan simply does not belong on the list of the “good guys”. That was the movies. The guy was an ACTOR.

I need to learn how to proof read … oops

We, the taxpayers paid for the Savings & Loan debacle; and, Here IN Miami …. sorry.

I wonder how the history of our country might be different if this kind of witch hunt was standard procedure in picking American leaders throughout our short history? Who would have replaced the leaders we have had? What would they have done to or for us?

Does chasing down sexual behavior of our leaders improve the quality of our leadership, or limit it to only a few? It’s a question worth considering.

Why is Impeachment Resolution Introduced by Rep. Kucinich so quiet while this topic is just jumping? What does that say about our chances to survive as a democracy?

Do you think Edwards would sink or float if he were dumped in the village square fountain?

I did not say Reagan was a good guy. He provided key leadership to the country that transformation the nation to right of center. John Adams was a good guy but lousy President. Cesear was a great leader but not neccessarily a good guy. These terms are not mutually exclusive.

Here’s Eric Francis’ take on today’s shooting death of Arkansas Democratic Party Chairman, Bill Gwatney:

BILL GWATNEY, chairman of the Arkansas Democratic party, died after being shot in his office today at about noon. Arkansas is one of those little places were big things seem to happen. Remember, the last president came from Arkansas, and it was also the home of Barack Obama’s main contender in the primaries, Hilary Clinton. The astrology indicates that this was not a lone nutcase scenario, but someone on a kind of political mission.

Bill Gwatney, chairman of the Arkansas Democratic Story, died after being shot. Photo: Arkansas American Legion.

Tim Johnson, the suspect, was killed. After a 30 mile chase involving three different police agencies, there are conflicting reports of how he died. Some said his car ended up wrapped around a tree. Others say he was subsequently shot.

The obvious problem here is that with the assailant gone, we will never really know the truth about what occurred.

The astrological backdrop to this story is that the chart for the Democratic National Convention in Denver in less than two weeks is a dark piece of astrology that reflects the extreme violence of our times. While most people have been focusing their fears on an attempt on the life of Barack Obama, it is not surprising that violence has erupted somewhere in the Democratic camp.

Here is the astrology chart for the assassination, based on press reports of an incident that took place “around noon.” [The time was in fact 11:59 am; this chart is cast for exactly at noon, which does not substantially change it.]

Checking the ascendant, the first thing we need to note is that it’s in the very last degree of Libra. That tells me two things: one, there is an old rule about not judging a chart that is in the very late or very early degrees of a sign.

So we need to be careful about being too definitive about this chart. Late ascendant charts will tend to indicate a changing story. Gwatney clung to life for a few hours, and his death was reported just before 6 pm Eastern Time. Second, the degree involved, 29+ Libra, was involved in the 2000 election (Mercury stationed direct in that degree just as polls closed on election night) and it’s involved in the 2008 election — again, it’s the position of Mercury.

When you have the same degree of the zodiac pop up in three different charts on similar subjects (in this case, presidential elections), that is a significant connection. This will have an effect on the election and seems designed for this purpose.

The ruler of the Libra ascendant — Venus — is exactly conjunct Saturn. I think that Gwatney, a superdelegate and friend of the Clintons, is a much bigger player than his nearly empty Wiki page indicates. And the Venus-Saturn connection did not bode well for his prospects of surviving the shooting. [I did not write this in the earlier draft because I honor the astrological taboo on predicting death.]

We also notice Pallas Athene — the asteroid of politics — in the house of death, the 8th house. The suggestion here is that Gwatnety’s murder was specifically politically motivated.

Had this not followed so closely on the heels of John Edwards being taken out of the political arena last week when an affair was disclosed, it might not be so suspicious. Sometimes two events are a coincidence and three represent a pattern. Let’s hope it the weirdness stops here.

I’ll be back shortly with additional details. Here is an article that gives some additional details about Gwatney’s role in politics.

I didn’t get the link for the article Eric provided, but check out the planetwaves site’s “Daily Astrology” page for the full article.

Here it is:

http://www.thecabin.net/stories/072608/opi_0726080020.shtml

Nancy,

Great piece. Most insightful.

Thank you!

w.

Mars and Pluto are square from now until Sunday (Monday AM in Georgia). This is a bad time for Saakashvilli with Pluto currently on his Sun. He will feel totally besieged, angry, potentially somewhat unhinged and hyper-emotional.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/world/europe/14saakashvili.html

President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia, who has appeared repeatedly on Western television during the days of conflict with Russia, made frantic and apparently overstated warnings on Wednesday that Russian troops were poised to enter the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.

The coverage on the John Edwards affair is getting increasingly excruciating. I just saw some of Dan Abrams show and I can’t believe this stuff is on TV.

From Kos:

Bayh? Kaine?
by kos
Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 06:30:56 PM PDT

I’m starting to suspect that the Evan Bayh boomlet is designed to make Tim Kaine look better by comparison, because really, Evan Bayh is about the only Democrat who makes Tim Kaine look palatable by comparison as Obama’s veep.

I’m trying to derive some hope from the fact the Obama campaign plans on releasing the name of the veep via text message. Because if people get that message and it says “Bayh” or “Kaine”, too many of those phones will be thrown out the window of moving cars, or against the wall, or into a lake. And really, would Obama really do that to his supporters?

I think it will be either Wes Clark or Joe Biden.

McCain is sending his own delegation to Georgia.

http://www.truthout.org/article/bush-sends-army-navy-rice-georgia-aid-mission

snip

The conflict boiled over when Mr. Saakashvili decided to send in troops to the Russian-friendly breakaway enclave of South Ossetia. Russian troops entered Georgia immediately, and Russian leaders said they were acting to protect Russian citizens in South Ossetia. With each day thereafter, Russia increased its presence on Georgian territory.

When an accord between President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia and Mr. Saakashvili was announced early Wednesday morning, Western leaders celebrated a diplomatic success. But the accord leaves it unclear where Russian and Georgian troops are allowed to be in Georgia. Russian leaders insist that the accord gives Russia a central role in the disputed areas as peacekeepers, while Western leaders are pressing for an international body to serve in that capacity.

The presence of Russians in Gori was particularly nerve-racking; Mr. Saakashvili compared the notion of Russian peacekeepers in Gori to “the fox guarding the chickens.” A Russian battalion commander, noting that Gori is only 40 miles from the capital, sent a menacing message to Mr. Saakashvili, long a thorn in the side of Russian leaders.

“If he doesn’t understand the situation, we’ll have to go further,” said the commander, speaking on condition of anonymity. “He doesn’t seem to understand that the Russian Army is much stronger than the Georgian Army. His tanks remain in their places. His air force is dead. His navy is also. His army is demoralized.”

Sergey V. Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, said the troops were supporting peacekeepers, a role expressly laid out in the six-point agreement. When Georgian forces abandoned their military headquarters near Gori, he said, they left “a major arsenal of armaments and military equipment,” and the Russian troops were guarding it.

“To leave it in such a condition would be unforgivable,” Mr. Lavrov said. “The city residents have problems with food,” he added. “The Russian servicemen will provide them with necessary aid.”

Mr. Saakashvili said Russia had effectively severed the country in two by occupying Gori, and that Russian forces were committing “classic World War II-type and Baltic-type ethnic cleansing” on Georgian soil.

In the western part of the country, Russians sank four military ships at the Black Sea port of Poti on Wednesday afternoon, according to Mayor Vano Vakhinadze.

Meanwhile, investigators began to look into allegations of atrocities committed in the separatist enclave of South Ossetia, where the war erupted on Aug. 8. Human Rights Watch reported that researchers witnessed “terrifying scenes of destruction” in four deserted ethnic Georgian villages, and said they the villages had been looted and burned by South Ossetian militias.

Anna Neistat, one of the researchers, said by telephone from Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, that they had found no evidence so far to substantiate Russian claims of widespread brutality by Georgian troops.

Human Rights Watch has been able to confirm fewer than 100 deaths - a far cry from the death toll of 2,000 regularly cited by Moscow.

“If the Russian government continues to claim that 2,000 people were killed as the result of the conflict, it’s time to provide some evidence, it’s time to provide some data, name, age, gender, the circumstances of death,” Ms. Neistat said.

Russian leaders would like to bring Mr. Saakashvili to face war crimes charges in The Hague.

Ballot Stuffing Holes, Illegal USB Ports Add to Sequoia/Dominion Voting System Flaws

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ballot-Stuffing-Holes-Ill-by-Rady-Ananda-080812-253.html

Sonya, you did include Reagan in a list of people you seem to consider did well by the common man or did something “good”. So, what was the point of including Reagan (Raygun as the Californians liked to call him … if you care to know why …). He did well to his small click of conmen, and is a dissonant addition to any person listed as “for the people”. Part of the typical U.S. propaganda of “good”. Dig a little and you come up with slime and not much else. Of course, the “propaganda” lists him as one of the “greats”. Bulldukie. Over the top, pretentious Funerals and misty eyes over what never was, and faux “let’s all stand at the alter to hail a great one” nothwithstanding. But, that’s another movie, I forgot.

I sheepishly have to confess I got caught up in the Edwards affair after I did the composite for:

Edwards 6/10/1953 7:02 a.m. Seneca, SC (astrodatabank data)
Hunter 3/20/64 11:04 a.m. Ft. Lauderdale, FL ((astrodatabank comments on his chart)

And I feel sorry her baby:
Frances Quinn Hunter 2/27/08 Santa Barbara, CA 9 a.m. (http://www.newsobserver.com/content/media/2008/7/31/birth%20certificate.pdf)

Only two aspects to the baby’s natal sun, and many unaspected planets.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_CONSEQUENCES?SITE=ORLAG&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-08-13-17-14-33

I can’t recall or find the site, and I’m surprised that I have not seen it mentioned in any of the posts or in other news reports. It was a news account that reported about a major oil pipeline running through Georgia, which supposedly was Putin’s ultimate goal. Jerry W in his posted quote also dealt with other geo-political issues. I don’t think Russia will be leaving Georgia, or at a minimum will have its own puppet government in place before it leaves:
T
“Energy has been a key consideration in negotiations. Russia - which supplies the EU with roughly a third of its oil and about 40 percent of its natural gas from Russia - has blocked visas for senior employees of the British energy giant BP PLC. One-fifth of the world’s gas reserves are in Russia and are controlled by Gazprom, the giant Russian utility that is targeting 20 percent of Britain’s domestic gas market by 2015.
Britain’s Foreign Secretary David Miliband said Wednesday recent discussions among G-8 members that excluded Russia sent a clear message.”

“For seven countries to come together without an eighth country … that has happened over the last few days,” Miliband told British Broadcasting Corp. radio. “I think that makes very clear to Russia that there are political consequences.”

Britain’s Europe minister Jim Murphy also posted a blistering blog against Russia on Wednesday.

My proofreading skills are still most deficient …. read “altar” instead of “alter. Yikes.

This appears to be an excellent article:

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2008/08/russogeorgian_war_and_balance.htm

August 13, 2008
Russo-Georgian War and Balance of Power
By Stratfor

Subheadings:

The Mystery Behind the Georgian Invasion
The Western Encirclement of Russia
Resurrecting the Russian Sphere

The following is from the last above subheading:

Putin did not want to re-establish the Soviet Union, but he did want to re-establish the Russian sphere of influence in the former Soviet Union region. To accomplish that, he had to do two things. First, he had to re-establish the credibility of the Russian army as a fighting force, at least in the context of its region. Second, he had to establish that Western guarantees, including NATO membership, meant nothing in the face of Russian power. He did not want to confront NATO directly, but he did want to confront and defeat a power that was closely aligned with the United States, had U.S. support, aid and advisers and was widely seen as being under American protection. Georgia was the perfect choice.

By invading Georgia as Russia did (competently if not brilliantly), Putin re-established the credibility of the Russian army. But far more importantly, by doing this Putin revealed an open secret: While the United States is tied down in the Middle East, American guarantees have no value. This lesson is not for American consumption. It is something that, from the Russian point of view, the Ukrainians, the Balts and the Central Asians need to digest. Indeed, it is a lesson Putin wants to transmit to Poland and the Czech Republic as well. The United States wants to place ballistic missile defense installations in those countries, and the Russians want them to understand that allowing this to happen increases their risk, not their security.

The Russians knew the United States would denounce their attack. This actually plays into Russian hands. The more vocal senior leaders are, the greater the contrast with their inaction, and the Russians wanted to drive home the idea that American guarantees are empty talk.

The Russians also know something else that is of vital importance: For the United States, the Middle East is far more important than the Caucasus, and Iran is particularly important. The United States wants the Russians to participate in sanctions against Iran. Even more importantly, they do not want the Russians to sell weapons to Iran, particularly the highly effective S-300 air defense system. Georgia is a marginal issue to the United States; Iran is a central issue. The Russians are in a position to pose serious problems for the United States not only in Iran, but also with weapons sales to other countries, like Syria.

Therefore, the United States has a problem — it either must reorient its strategy away from the Middle East and toward the Caucasus, or it has to seriously limit its response to Georgia to avoid a Russian counter in Iran. Even if the United States had an appetite for another war in Georgia at this time, it would have to calculate the Russian response in Iran — and possibly in Afghanistan (even though Moscow’s interests there are currently aligned with those of Washington).

In other words, the Russians have backed the Americans into a corner. The Europeans, who for the most part lack expeditionary militaries and are dependent upon Russian energy exports, have even fewer options. If nothing else happens, the Russians will have demonstrated that they have resumed their role as a regional power. Russia is not a global power by any means, but a significant regional power with lots of nuclear weapons and an economy that isn’t all too shabby at the moment. It has also compelled every state on the Russian periphery to re-evaluate its position relative to Moscow. As for Georgia, the Russians appear ready to demand the resignation of President Mikhail Saakashvili. Militarily, that is their option. That is all they wanted to demonstrate, and they have demonstrated it.

The war in Georgia, therefore, is Russia’s public return to great power status. This is not something that just happened — it has been unfolding ever since Putin took power, and with growing intensity in the past five years. Part of it has to do with the increase of Russian power, but a great deal of it has to do with the fact that the Middle Eastern wars have left the United States off-balance and short on resources. As we have written, this conflict created a window of opportunity. The Russian goal is to use that window to assert a new reality throughout the region while the Americans are tied down elsewhere and dependent on the Russians. The war was far from a surprise; it has been building for months. But the geopolitical foundations of the war have been building since 1992. Russia has been an empire for centuries. The last 15 years or so were not the new reality, but simply an aberration that would be rectified. And now it is being rectified.

“In other words, the Russians have backed the Americans into a corner.”

This is the key to the article, however, I believe it is the Americans who have backed themselves into a corner through their own hubris and stupidity. And it will happen over and over and over again, in this, and many other spheres to come. Sheer stupidity and hubris will always, in the end, lose. All the Russians had to do was wait until the idiots overextended themselves and then pounce upon the prey. Pathetic.

Jerry W,

We’ve posted before about the possibility of Hezbollah starting mayhem in Lebanon to distract the United States and Israel from an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities.

It appears now there is another option of distraction. Russia could overtly or covertly(they already have simply by this past week’s invasion of Georgia) threaten the Caucasus if there is any attack on Iran. How far would Russia go? Georgia and the Ukraine? Further, like Poland? Or Russia could just tighten the spigot on oil and natural gas which would greatly increase the price of both. How high would Russia be willing to jack up prices? Would it be willing to instigate a depression? Or will a depression be a small price if Russia has Europe in vassalage to it?

I don’t believe that Putin is just out to send us a message that we better show Russia some respect. A totalitarian has no concern for how many people are lost including his own for his greater need for power. Short of nuclear warfare, does anyone really believe that Europe or the United States is prepared to go to war with Russia?

Nancy,

Are you the astrologer who wrote something about at the end of the year that Bush or the U.S. would find itself in a bind where he/it would want to take action, but would be unable to? Wherever I read that, at the time I thought it might be referring to economic restraints like the emerging of a Depression that would prove us insolvent and forcing us to bring our troops home. Now it appears Russia may hold the trump card. The repercussions if we take out the nuclear facilities in Iran, and even worse if we don’t, and Iran is allowed to have nuclear weapons are to nightmarish to consider.

What has Iran ever done to the U.S. that you have such an irrational fear of them? Who has poisoned your mind with fear, Josh? They, rightly so, are very fearful of the U.S. We have more than proven ourselves to be their enemies.

Didn’t we hear this same irrational fear about Iraq? Nuclear yellowcake? Lies, lies, lies.

Marta, being an effective leader does not mean you are a good guy. Presidents have to do pretty awful things sometimes like Truman dropping the A bomb. Or FDR ok the Allied forces to land on Normandy. Alot of our troops were killed trying to land on that beach and many soliders thought it was a sucide mission but it was for the “greater good”. Truman ended
WWII quickly but ushered in the cold war and arms race.

You can’t be a good guy all the time and be President. Some hard and awful choices have to be made. Was FDR a good guy when he found out about the concentration camps in Germany but didn’t inform the American Public, was he a good guy when he interned Japanase Americans in camps?

Jimmy Carter was a good guy but was a better ex President than President. So, being effective leader is not being a good guy. I had plenty of bosses that were bad guys but did there jobs well, I also had bosses that were good people but couldn’t manage their workers, and I had bosses that were in between, good people who were able to make tough decision that didn’t make their workers all happy.

I am a die hard liberal from generations of liberals yet I can seperate my own political beliefs to be objective. Reagan did end the cold war but exploded our budget and cut our social services fabric to pieces.

So again was Truman a good guy when he killed thousand of women, children and men in Nagaski or not? or was the father of our country George Washington a good guy when he executed an uprising leader because he lead a group to insuborniation over lack of food, money, clothes and shoes in the winter combat during the Revolutionary War? Was randy dandy Ben Franklin a good guy? Was Abe Lincoln a good guy when he approved Sherman’s march on the south and burning of Atlanta? Or we he gave the Emanicpation Proclamation which freed slaves that he had no jursidication over (very clever but cynical). People don’t fall into the easy cookie cutter of good or bad and Presidents or world leaders don’t either. Being President can be a dispicable job sometimes. As I said good guy and effective leadership are not mutually exclusive.

Marta,

Putin would not”pounce upon the prey” if he were democratic. We may have given him the pretext, but he obviously has other designs for Russia’s goals.

As for the nuclear defense shield in Eastern Europe which was to be aimed at Iran, Bush invited Russia to be a part of it. It was Putin that chose not to be.

I have mixed feelings about Bush’s actions with Georgia and the Ukraine. Obviously, they wanted their independence secured, and without guarantees from NATO, they were totally vulnerable as Putin’s actions progressed over the last few years. They had every reason to fear exactly want Putin did. I do agree with you that Georgia overplayed its hand, due to American hubris and/or stupidity. However, I’m of the opinion that Putin ultimately would have done whatever he wanted to do, whenever he wanted to do it, and come up with whatever pretext he needed. Whatever move Putin would eventually have taken would have shown the illusion of American power with its small army, a country financially bankrupted at all levels, and an American and particularly European population that are no longer willing to defend themselves.

We are also overextended. A country can not continuously be at a state of war, particularly when a group of Americans constantly undermine the war effort, who are hell-bent on making sure this country never wins another war under any circumstances. It’s no wonder Lincoln, Wilson, and Roosevelt took National Emergency actions to prevent the anti-war constituencies from undermining the war effort. If those groups were active during the war like they are today and during the Viet Nam War, we never would have won those wars.

So how do we now priortize our commitments?

Europe was placed under our nuclear umbrella to guarantee its protection from the Soviet Union, and to prevent a proliferation of nuclear weapons among European nations. Nonetheless, France being France still developed its own arsenal. We then had to keep troops committed in Europe to make sure if Europe was attacked we would in fact be participants and more inclined to use nuclear weapons if necessary. It also made sense, since NATO represented the closest thing to a European Union, whereby the sovereign states of Europe could work together under American leadership. This arrangement has served its purpose as long as American was not overextended and financially
solvent.

This strategy allowed Europe to provide some cost, but less than it would endure if it had to raise its own standing army and military paraphernalia.
Combine these cost savings with the socialist democratic countries of Northern Europe revenue input from off shore oil rigs, and the Europeans have been able to provide themselves with a secure life of comfort, which also undermines their determination to fight for anything.

Obviously, once Putin, former head of the KGB, became the head of Russia, of which 75% of the top government officials in Russia are former KGB agents; democracy was dead, even if the idiot Bush was seeing into Putin’s soul. Taking action by having Eastern Europe brought into NATO was necessary to guarantee their independence, and prevent another Russian takeover, or Western give-away of Eastern European freedom’s as Roosevelt did at Yalta; whereby we won the war but lost the peace on the Western Front, by sacrificing the hopes and aspirations of Eastern Europeans, and the millions of lives that were lost with the Soviet takeover. Something for which liberals have yet to atone.

Nancy, Congratulations on going International. That is fantastic, but please do not leave us.
There is something “wrong” with Arkansas , the Clintons, Mena Arkansas and drugs, a clan of Rockefellers, Huckabee and Wes Clark’s PAC seems to be headquartered there. Whatever that means? Convention’s Wed. night agenda is named similar to Wes Clark’s PAC, so it could be Clark? Reagan was terrible for average workers-making them work less hours/ turning everyone to part-time and taking away benefits. I have contempt for him. He was just an Actor.
How will Isreal come out of the Georgia/Russian conflict?

Marta “What has Iran ever done to the U.S. that you have such an irrational fear of them?”

There was this thing called the hostage crisis - maybe you missed it? But the truth is that it’s about the oil, and that fear isn’t trivial. Most of the oil for the entire world moves through the Persian Gulf - if there was a war there it could cause an instant depression.

Add to that you have US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan which are next to Iran and you can get the context. Not to mention nuke tech floating around from Pakistan/North Korea.

Also your “fact” that Georgia started the shooting is in dispute (not that I’d trust anything I’d hear from either side 100%). I suspect it was Russia because the cyber attacks started a week before the shooting - and - the Russian response was just too fast and well coordinated for a “reaction”. Since 1800 Russia has always seen Georgia as a colony.

LJ Wes Clark is the only person who can say “I’m the last guy who won a war for the United States”. And if Russia is a key issue his experience with NATO would be a plus. That and his track record on investing in alternative energy. His only negatives are that he’s a bit too clean cut which can clash with the dirty world of politics.

Marta,

Anyone who has read and heard the rhetoric of Iran knows that Iranian leaders have every intention of annihilating Israel if given the opportunity. Reports claim that Israel has had an arsenal of possibly 200 nuclear weapons for some time now. If Israel was the ultimate Middle East aggressor, it would have used them by now against its foes. If Iran procures these nuclear weapons, it will become a question of suspicion between each side over who will use them first. In other words, who takes the first preemptive strike.

I hate to think of the probable cause of lives to American troops and civilians in the Middle East if Israel and the United States take preemptive strike against Iran’s facilities. I also hate to imagine how much greater the cost will be in the next few years, if Iran succeeds in its nuclear weapons development. Increasingly, the latter scenario may become reality as it appears Russia may be holding the trump card, and the U.S. and Israel may be paralyzed from acting. It’s a no-win situation either way. Which action becomes the lesser evil? Unless, the U.S. in its covert operations in Iran is successful in undermining the Mullahs from within with their own people, but I’m not holding my breath on that one.

Beyond Israel’s national security threat, Iran also has dreams of Islamic hegemony in the Middle East. Who will control the Middle East, and then the ambition to control the world–Al Qaeda’s
Sunni’s or Iranian Shias?

If reports are true that some of Russia’s nuclear bombs or materials have been diverted either with or without the Russian government’s knowledge, it may only be a matter of time before these weapons are used in Europe and/or in the United States. These rogue bombs will not require a missile delivery system to blow up one or numerous European and American cities.

Marta,

Yellow cake is found in Iraq and you automatically dismiss it as lies, because it doesn’t fit your template. I don’t know who is telling the truth. Either side could be lying. The opponents to Bush also claimed that the chemicals found that were used by Saddam were no longer viable and spent of their lethal value. First, Saddam had claimed all such chemicals had been destroyed. Obviously, not true. Second, the military disagrees that these chemicals were no longer potent. Who’s telling the truth? I don’t know. Whoever we want to believe. The military also excavated 60 crates of bicycles. Why would the Iraqi’s bury 60 crates of bicycles? Why this penchant for burying everything? What else might be found excavated in the future? There are the reports of Iraqi convoys making their way into Syria just prior to or during the beginning of the war? Are the reports true? I don’t know. If they are, then what might those convoys have been taking into Syria?

Posted on Aug 12, 2008

Excerpt from Truth Dig By Robert Scheer

That Georgia conflict planed to aid McCain’s chances!

“Is it possible that this time the October surprise was tried in August, and that the garbage issue of brave little Georgia struggling for its survival from the grasp of the Russian bear was stoked to influence the U.S. presidential election?

Before you dismiss that possibility, consider the role of one Randy Scheunemann, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government who ended his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate John McCain’s senior foreign policy adviser. Previously, Scheunemann was best known as one of the neoconservatives who engineered the war in Iraq when he was a director of the Project for a New American Century. It was Scheunemann who, after working on the McCain 2000 presidential campaign, headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which championed the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

There are telltale signs that he played a similar role in the recent Georgia flare-up. How else to explain the folly of his close friend and former employer, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, in ordering an invasion of the breakaway region of South Ossetia, an invasion that clearly was expected to produce a Russian counterreaction? It is inconceivable that Saakashvili would have triggered this dangerous escalation without some assurance from influential Americans he trusted, like Scheunemann, that the United States would have his back. Scheunemann long guided McCain in these matters, even before he was officially running foreign policy for McCain’s presidential campaign. In 2005, while registered as a paid lobbyist for Georgia, Scheunemann worked with McCain to draft a congressional resolution pushing for Georgia’s membership in NATO. A year later, while still on the Georgian payroll, Scheunemann accompanied McCain on a trip to that country, where they met with Saakashvili and supported his bellicose views toward Russia’s Vladimir Putin.

Yes, it sounds diabolical, but that may be the most accurate way to assess the designs of the McCain campaign in matters of war and peace. There is every indication that the candidate’s demonization of Russian leader Putin is an even grander plan than the previous use of Saddam to fuel American militarism with the fearsome enemy that it desperately needs. McCain gets to look tough with a new Cold War to fight while Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, scrambling to make sense of a more measured foreign policy posture, will seem weak in comparison. Meanwhile, the dire consequences of the Bush legacy that McCain has inherited, from the disaster of Iraq to the economic meltdown, conveniently will be ignored. But the military-industrial complex, which has helped bankroll the neoconservatives, will be provided with an excuse for ramping up a military budget that is already bigger than that of the rest of the world combined. “

“A Path to Peace in the Caucasus

Excerpt: By Mikhail Gorbachev - WashingtonPost.com
Tuesday, August 12, 2008; A13

MOSCOW — The past week’s events in South Ossetia are bound to shock and pain anyone. Already, thousands of people have died, tens of thousands have been turned into refugees, and towns and villages lie in ruins. Nothing can justify this loss of life and destruction. It is a warning to all. The roots of this tragedy lie in the decision of Georgia’s separatist leaders in 1991 to abolish South Ossetian autonomy. This turned out to be a time bomb for Georgia’s territorial integrity. Each time successive Georgian leaders tried to impose their will by force — both in South Ossetia and in Abkhazia, where the issues of autonomy are similar — it only made the situation worse. New wounds aggravated old injuries. Nevertheless, it was still possible to find a political solution. For some time, relative calm was maintained in South Ossetia. The peacekeeping force composed of Russians, Georgians and Ossetians fulfilled its mission, and ordinary Ossetians and Georgians, who live close to each other, found at least some common ground.

Through all these years, Russia has continued to recognize Georgia’s territorial integrity. Clearly, the only way to solve the South Ossetian problem on that basis is through peaceful means. Indeed, in a civilized world, there is no other way.
The Georgian leadership flouted this key principle.

What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against “small, defenseless Georgia” is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity.

Mounting a military assault against innocents was a reckless decision whose tragic consequences, for thousands of people of different nationalities, are now clear. The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force. Georgian armed forces were trained by hundreds of U.S. instructors, and its sophisticated military equipment was bought in a number of countries. This, coupled with the promise of NATO membership, emboldened Georgian leaders into thinking that they could get away with a “blitzkrieg” in South Ossetia.

In other words, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was expecting unconditional support from the West, and the West had given him reason to think he would have it. Now that the Georgian military assault has been routed, both the Georgian government and its supporters should rethink their position. Hostilities must cease as soon as possible, and urgent steps must be taken to help the victims — the humanitarian catastrophe, regretfully, received very little coverage in Western media this weekend — and to rebuild the devastated towns and villages. It is equally important to start thinking about ways to solve the underlying problem, which is among the most painful and challenging issues in the Caucasus — a region that should be approached with the greatest care.
not just in the Caucasus.

The writer was the last president of the Soviet Union. He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 and is president of the Gorbachev Foundation, a Moscow think tank.

Julie W, thanks for posting that article. It’s amazing how the news gets twisted and manipulated (and history also) in this country. People repeat the most incredible things like parrots. This mis/disinformation makes it truly difficult to have a rational conversation.

Truman, for instance pulled the trigger on Hiroshima and Nagasaki because the US military wanted to test the bomb (as in nuclear) and that was going to be their first chance. Where else could they test the bombs effect on cities and population? The Japanese had been trying to surrender for weeks to the U.S., who completely ignored them (after all our brass was soooooo concerned about not losing any more soldiers that they let the war go on for a few more weeks until they could test the bomb). So innocent civilians and two cities were obliterated by nuclear weapons. So we could test the bomb. Sweet, huh. Then the U.S. population was carefully told “we didn’t have a choice, we wanted to save lives by dropping the bomb so we could end the war”. Such vicious lies. And yet, as you can see, they are still repeated today.

And as far as yellowcake, anybody who still believes that Iraq was about weapons of mass destruction is well … misinformed, 6 years later, how could this be? It’s because our press and pundits talk so much junk, lies and propaganda, that of course, some of it inevitably sticks.

And the Iranian hostage situation? You’re kidding, right? Let me see … we were interfering in Iran’s internal affairs (they deposed the Shah, our puppet, who was installed after the U.S. assassinated Mossadeq who was a DEMOCRATICALLY elected President of Iran, but wasn’t liked by the U.S. (as usual) and a bunch of Iranian students (not the government BTW - though they most likely sanctioned it) took hostages who were released about a year later. OK. Um, that was around 30 years ago, and the hostages were released. So, fast forward to now, the hostages mean we should nuke Iran (80 million population) so Iran doesn’t do something? Iran can’t have a bomb when India/Pakistan, etc., etc. all have bombs. Says who? And why? Iran has never attacked another country. But they will defend themselves from attack. What’s wrong with that? As I said earlier, what has Iran done to you personally that you believe so vehemently that we should attack another country. Another preemptive war. What, exactly, are you reading? How could anybody, after the fiasco in Iraq and Afganistan even remotely contemplate attacking another country? Seeing all those weeping men, women and children. All those lives disrupted. Countries ravaged. What if it were you, and your country. Enough of war. It’s stupid.

Nancy,

Are you the astrologer who wrote something about at the end of the year that Bush or the U.S. would find itself in a bind where he/it would want to take action, but would be unable to?

Josh - Yes, I am. I think we are seeing the beginning of that now. Russia acts and we can’t do much. Short of nuclear war, I am not sure how much we can do about Iran becoming nuclear, and after them, several other Middle East countries. I do, however, think some of the paralysis at the end of the year is economic as well as military.

Charles Krauthammer, who I normally detest, has a useful article today about what we could do in response to Russia’s recent actions. Amazingly, none of his ideas (he is a neocon) includes military action.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/13/AR2008081303365.html

And we should remember that Moscow is in particularly aggressive mood this year through December and only slowly easing up after that. Progressed Sun square Russian Mars is at the core of recent events sparked by the willful and unilateral Uranus transit square the Sun. Unfortunately, more bad behavior is possible until the final crossing of Uranus square the Sun in February.

Josh - That was a terrific article you posted from Real Clear Politics!! But the link you posted no longer works. I think this is the correct one. Some of what the article says is what I was referring to in the article I wrote for this thread.

http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2008/08/russogeorgian_war_and_balance.html

From the Krauthammer article:

Which explains Putin stopping the Russian army (for now) short of Tbilisi. What everyone overlooks in the cease-fire terms is that all future steps — troop withdrawals, territorial arrangements, peacekeeping forces — will have to be negotiated between Russia and Georgia. But Russia says it will not talk to Saakashvili. Thus regime change becomes the first requirement for any movement on any front. This will be Putin’s refrain in the coming days. He is counting on Europe to pressure Saakashvili to resign and/or flee to “give peace a chance.”

The Finlandization of Georgia would give Russia control of the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the only significant westbound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia. Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports. Moscow would become master of the Caspian basin.

Subduing Georgia has an additional effect. It warns Russia’s former Baltic and East European satellites what happens if you get too close to the West. It is the first step to reestablishing Russian hegemony in the region.

Mikhail Gorbachev will be interviewed on Larry King Live this evening.

US Troops in Georgia; Russia Not Backing Down

http://www.truthout.org/article/us-troops-georgia-russia-not-backing-down

Ellen Barry and C.J. Chivers, The New York Times: “President Dmitri Medvedev of Russia on Thursday said that Russia would act as an international guarantor of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the two pro-Russian enclaves at the center of the crisis that have long desired separation from Georgia. As Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice headed to the region for discussions on the crisis and to show support for Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, the Russian position seemed to be a direct challenge to President Bush who said a day earlier that he ‘insists that the sovereign and territorial integrity of Georgia be respected’…. On Wednesday, the United States and Georgia called the Russian advances into Gori and another strategic Georgian city a violation of the cease-fire agreement struck only hours earlier. In response, Mr. Bush sent American troops to Georgia to oversee a ‘vigorous and ongoing’ humanitarian mission, in a direct challenge to Russia’s display of military dominance over the region. Mr. Bush demanded that Russia abide by the cease-fire and withdraw its forces or risk its place in ‘the diplomatic, political, economic and security structures of the 21st century.’ It was his strongest warning yet of potential retaliation against Russia over the conflict.”

Russia sinks Georgian ships yesterday, unapposed.

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_seyret&Itemid=91&task=videodirectlink&id=255

Josh, I have to congratulate you, you are very well spoken and have many insightful views. I guess we are just at a different place right now and that is why we see things with different eyes. BTW, lest you think otherwise, I am an army brat, most of my family has served in the military, including my brother who is up for Afghanistan some time at the end of 2008 (he already served in Iraq), my grandfather was a General in the U.S. army and taught at West Point for over 20 years, my father, my cousins…. too many to enumerate right now. So, my views have evolved greatly over the past 20 odd years or so (let’s just say the scales have fallen off my eyes) about the military and the part they play in the U.S. and abroad.

I guess that my views today comprise the fact that our military, rather than being used to defend the U.S. is used to advance U.S. corporate interests throughout the world. Yes, those same corporate interests that have exported all our jobs offshore to China, India, Thailand, etc. How wonderful for them to see their economies booming, their educational system thriving, their jobs and prosperity rising. How terrible to see the devastation here in the U.S. Yet the military sucks up more and more of our dollars and who benefits? Not the U.S. citizens. Even though we’re told we do. We just get to pay for this stuff. Wars are concocted, and sold to the public via propaganda, lies and misinformation, for others benefit. Not ours.

Putin’s movements, as Krauthammer writes, remind me of highly skilled Russian Chess players.

Nancy, thank you for such an insightful article on the Russia/Georgia situation.

Question: I no longer hear Kathleen Sebelius’ name when the vp decision is brought up. Has she been dropped from consideration? I would be very interested in knowing what her prospects are for the next few years.

I want to take issue with various statements made on this thread so far.

The “liberals” have to “atone” for the fact that the West acquiesced in Stalin’s takeover of Eastern Europe? Come on. I don’t think the liberal-conservative labels we use really applied then, or apply to this issue. FDR was fooled by Stalin, but the Republicans in Congress probably wouldn’t have done differently. The Russians were already occupying Eastern Europe at the end of the war, and I don’t think the West wanted to continue fighting in order to get them out. It was a terrible shame and a betrayal of those countries, but the disposition of Eastern Europe wasn’t an article of liberal ideology. It’s not something you can bash liberals with.

Truman did not use the bombs to “test” them. He did it to win the war without the huge loss of life U.S. analysts predicted to result from an invasion of the Japanese home islands. It’s not true the Japanese were suing for peace and we just wouldn’t listen to them. Some Japanese were putting out very subtle peace feelers via European diplomats, but the Japanese hardliners were still in control, and still argued against surrender even after the bombs were dropped. The bombs caused Emperor Hirohito to agree to surrender. Truman said he was influenced by the idea that Americans would reproach him if he had had a weapon that would have ended the war and didn’t use it. (I don’t agree we should have used it, though. I think we should have let them know earlier on that their Emperor would not be removed or killed—a lot of the fight to the end was to preserve the Emperor. Or that we should have dropped a “demonstration bomb” in the ocean. At least, why drop two of them?)

I don’t want to diminish the horror of nuclear weapons, but do you think the rest of the war was humane? The Japanese killed hundreds of thousands of other Asians in their Greater East Asia Prosperity Sphere, I think they called it, which was really their brutal dictatorship of all the Asian countries they conquered. Ever hear of the Burma Railroad, the Rape of Nanking, Unit 731, and the thousands of Chinese, Russian, American, British, and Dutch prisoners the Japanese killed? The Japanese were not innocent victims of our depravity. Nor were the atomic bombs the worst individual events of the war. Combined, they did not kill as many Japanese as our firebombing of Tokyo. Does that not matter because it was done with “conventional” weapons?

I think the point is war is bad. Whether with conventional or nuclear weapons or any other means of war. Period. And that point applies to everyone, not just us or them. All of us. War is immoral by it’s very nature.

Let’s agree that we disagree on the motives for dropping 2 bombs on on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I’ve read that Truman was haunted by his utilization of the bomb and the aftermath. All nuclear bombs should be completely banned. We live on a very small earth. If this continues, what do you think the outcome will be. Total annihilation for all of us. It’s beyond belief that any sane, rational person would think these bombs (or any other war machine) are any good, yet I know many sane, rational people, starting with my brothers and my father who do think so. However, in the aftermath of a nuclear conflagration (or a biological attack or whatever the means) - if we have the bad luck to be the ones hit - I somehow think they will no longer think the way they do. The costs are unbearably high. That’s what happened to the survivors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The destruction was so horrific, the wounds so hideous and traumatic that they all became pacifists (or a great majority of them … all might be a bit too inclusive). Is that what we’re going to need to go through before we too “get it”? That’s a pretty sad state of affairs, but I think that’s where a lot of the US population stands because it’s what we’ve been taught, to fear, to strike out. There is no humane war. Doesn’t exist.

Marta,

Yes, your post confirms my statement. I don’t understand how you can take my post about Edward stating that FDR, JFK and Reagan had affairs meant I was saying Reagan was a good guy.

Now, I mentioned that all presidents have done awful things and cite examples which you agree to (ie Truman/ A bomb).

So which one is it? In your mind, do presidents have to be good guys to be effective. I for one am not looking for the the priest in chief. I’m looking for the commander in chief. And with that job, some rotten choices will have to be made.

And a Goody toe shoes President has never been President (sans Carter) in the US. And I wouldn’t want one. I want a President with character and toughness. And if presented with the choice to shooting down an airliner to save the twin towers of NY, that he/she would have the capacity to do so.

There is no good guy in that decision making process but that is what is require from our President.

Um, we are civilians. The President is NOT our commander-in-chief. He is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. This appears to be part of the confusion. We have become a totally militarized society, with the few bearing the brunt of the sacrifices and the rest lining up like cheerleaders.

As far as character and toughness. How about some tough decisions that benefit the most, rather than the few? So we like character and toughness in our “leaders” but decry it in other’s leaders, such as Putin? The coin has two sides.

What I’m looking for in a president is way beyond the typical sound bites of commander-in-chief, toughness and character, which usually turn out to be patently false and a mirage.

Regarding Reagan, I’ve never heard that he had an affair, only that he was dedicated to his wife, Nancy. About him being a great president, that’s just simply balderdash. He was a terrible president and did much harm to this country and it’s citizens.

As far as 9/11, it would have been nice if NORAD had shot those planes down. Unfortunately Cheney made sure they didn’t. False flag operations have always been used as excuses to start wars. No difference here. So all that character and toughness (which BTW is what Cowboy Bush likes to sell himself as being) doesn’t jive with his reading of My Pet Goat during the attacks (probably upside down, but whatever), and then flying aimlessly around the U.S. airspace for hours afterwards. Pathetic. But, the story is, he’s a tough guy. He’s got character. “Bring it on!” Yeah! Hooah!

Insane.

MIdge Fly: Thanks for the info re: Gorbachev on Larry King and I hope to watch it.

Marta,

I think you maybe floating on a live wire. The President as Commander and Chief does have real implication not only to the Armed Services but to all Americans. If a President launches a missile attack on Russia, the Russians will counter attack and they will not be aiming their missiles at the Armed forces but NY, Washington DC and other vital cities and interests within the US which will kill thousands of Americans.

And as Commmander in Chief, the President can institute the draft which effects all male US citizens of fighting age.

Your posts seems to jump to illogical ends. Where did I mentioned Bush. I mentioned moral and toughness as qualities that any President will need.

Bush pretended to have those qualities but did not display them. Unlike the other presidents that I DID MENTIONED.

And you still haven’t answered the question I posed to you. What qualities are you looking for in a president? You stated that you wanted a good guy as President. I questioned that as a quality for an effective President.

I stated that good morals and toughness are qualities I’m looking for in a President. But they aren’t the only ones. You stated that you are looking for something more. Please define.

You attack peoples posts without answering questions your posts illicits? Are you interested in dialogue and discussion or just sounding off?

I’m not attacking anybody. Conversations aren’t always linear, not all questions are always answered. Sorry.

((((Marta))))

Thanks Pat, that made me laugh … glad someone gets it.

New thread up that is mostly a summary of this one. I wanted a simple summary.

Nancy, this is very interesting and well written. You’re dead on rearding the presidential power struggles.

You go a bit to lightly on Saakashvili . He’s a fool. There had been back and forth sniping for days, weeks, and the Russians and Georgians were negotiating. Then, out of now where, the Saakashvili orders an attack. It doesn’t matter if it’s against a break away state supported by the Dali Lama or Russia, it was an attack by Georgia that killed many. Well, to think of it, it does matter. If you are a nation of 4.5 million people and you attack Russia you get what he got. I’m sure Putin couldn’t believe his good luck. He was fully justified in doing what he’d do if he had no restraints.

How did this guy get in? A US “democracy” revolution. We put him there and that was another bad move for the worst president in history (world history).

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0809/S00087.htm

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